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Don't Believe this Cattery!!

This is a forum to discuss legislation and legal matters pertaining to the rights and welfare of cats. Please remember to counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice and responses.

  
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Eddie

Lord Edward +- Lady Charlotte =- BFFs
 
 
Purred: Mon Aug 16, '10 8:29pm PST 
There have been several reporting authors on the same cattery, Kisspurz cattery. Now her web address is By Design. Fortunately, her site was closed down. Now, if you ever see her on a site, do NOT I repeat DO NOT buy her kittens. She is a animal abuser. She WILL steal your money. I found that this cattery was found on Rippoff Report.
If you have ever heard of this cattery, spread the word.

Edited by author Sat Aug 21, '10 8:30pm PST

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Noodle

So I broke it.- Get over it.
 
 
Purred: Tue Aug 17, '10 8:46am PST 
What does she do that's so bad? D:

I'm just curious
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Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Tue Aug 17, '10 5:58pm PST 
It sounds like this breeder is selling sick cats. No, she does not sound like a good breeder. She sounds like she is not doing what a good breeder does--treating treatable diseases, keeping sick cats quarantined, probably not keeping the toilets clean enough, perhaps underfeeding her cats. Contagious diseases like ringworm and URIs spread in any multicat environment. That includes not only catteries, but also shelters and multicat homes. Catteries have fewer cats than shelters, and a good cattery keeps a keen eye on sanitary conditions and the health of each cat/kitten. A good cattery does not overbreed its females, and except in rare cases, when a cattery is trying to develop a new breed, for example, line breeding (breeding genetically related cats) is not practiced. Lowered immunity may be related to inbreeding, but ringworm, URIs, worm infestations, and giardia are not, so far as I know. Some conditions CAN be passed from the mother cat to her kittens through her milk--roundworms being one example. Sharing toilets is another common way for cats to pass on parasites to one another. If one cat gets a URI, it is not uncommon for all the cats (especially kittens, whose immune systems are not yet well developed) to catch it. Again, the same thing happens in shelters and multicat homes. Perhaps the safest way to raise kittens is to make sure that Momcat doesn't have any parasites or other diseases that can be passed on to her kittens. The kittens should be isolated from the rest of the cat population until their immune systems are developed. If all the adult cats and any other kittens in the household have been checked for worms and the like, the younger kittens will not spontaneously develop things like ringworm. There is a possiblity of them developing URIs if another cat in the household has, for example, been to a cat show and picked up an infection in the air (it happens). Cats can also pick up URIs at the vet's. The cat may not show any symptoms, but pass the infection on to other cats anyway. A good breeder is responsible for treating any kittens who are obviously sick. Fleas can enter the house by hitching a ride on a human's clothing, or by flea-infested rodents (fleas can also transfer tapeworms). A good breeder recognizes these symptoms, and treats the kittens. A kitten should not be sold until it is well. Unfortunately, things like herpes can recur, but it is probably somewhat naive to think that any multicat environment--shelter, home, or cattery--is always going to be free of URIs. If a cat has a serious health problem that cannot be cured (a heart disability, a URI that has permanently plugged up the tear ducts), the breeder should not sell the cat, but keep it in the cattery.

However, I will play the devil's advocate here. If you're going to buy a cat from a cattery, you must do your homework. A URI may not be obvious when you first go to see the kitten, and then flare up when it is stressed out by its new environment, but something like ringworm should be obvious from the start. A potential buyer should insist on looking at all the cats and kittens in the cattery, and if any of them look sick, find another cattery. The best article I've read about choosing a cattery is about Maine Coons, but the information is applicable to any breed.

http://www.mcbfa.org/articles3.html

If you're going to buy a cat from a cattery, make sure you do your homework first. Learn how to distinguish a good cattery from a bad one (the article above explains a lot about that one). Learn what diseases to look for (obviously, there are some that can't be seen with the naked eye, like roundworms, but you should be able to see if there are fleas, ringworm, URIs etc. in the cattery). Ask the breeder if the parent cats have been tested for parasites, and for genetic defects specific to that breed. Educate yourself on the breed standard for the breed you're looking at--the CFA is a good place to start. See how the kittens respond to you, or, perhaps more important, how the adults do. Demand to see the pedigree up front, and don't be afraid to ask questions about any cats who seem to be related. Also, educate yourself about the cat world. Recognize that famous catteries are NOT always the best; smaller catteries who spend less time on PR can produce good cats, too. Regarding cages, breeding cats under foot is the ideal, but there are times when a cat must be caged--when it's being treated for a parasitical infection and has to have its own litter box, when a cat in heat is quarreling with the other females, when a cat has just come back from spaying, etc. The stud must be kept separate from the other cats, in his own room or in a cage. Kittens have to be kept in some kind of enclosure until they have been litter box trained. There are sanitary benefits to keeping cats in cages all the time, but I prefer cats that have been bred under foot.

One rule of thumb is that a good breeder should show their cats in cat shows, at least from time to time. Sick cats or cats who don't meet the breed standard will get cold treatment at shows. Breeders like to gossip, and a breeder who is recommended by a lot of other breeders is likely to be a good breeder--BUT breeders also tend to form cliques, and will badmouth another breeder simply to be catty. As for the CFA logo and CFA registration: the cattery's name is registered with the CFA, but the cattery itself is not. The CFA does have a list of "Catteries of Excellence," but while catteries on that list probably are excellent catteries, many equally excellent catteries are not on that list. I live in Japan, where the CFA is very active, and know which catteries produce the best cats. The last time I checked, there were very few of them on the list--not because they failed the inspection, but because they never applied. The CFA only gives a cattery the right to say that the cattery's name has been registerd with the CFA--in theory, you could register your cattery and not even own a single cat! So don't be too worried about the connection with the CFA (or TICA, or any other registry). But a backyard breeder will not show their cats (it's too expensive, for one thing--one cat in one cat show costs around $200 in Japan--ouch). And their cats would probably not meet breed standards.

Every serious breeder wants to have a Grand Champion (preferably a stud) in their cattery. Becoming a Grand Champion is not that easy. Becoming a Champion, however, is almost automatic if you put a cat in one or two shows. Having Champions in your kitten's line means that the breeder does show his/her cats, which means that the cats are probably not obviously ill, follow the breed standards, and relatively well-socialized (points are taken off for cats who obviously don't like being shown). It also means that the breeder has a support group which acts as a source of information about breeding, illness, and breed standards. On the other hand, unless you have an absolutely amazing cat, making your cat a Grand Champion or Regional/National Winner is all about points. In other words, you have to have the time and money to put your cat into lots and lots and lots of shows. There are plenty of excellent cats who are not Grand Champions or Regional/National Winners.

Your breeder sounds like a lemon. There have been other complaints lodged against her. This is a sad but true example of how a potential buyer should do a lot of homework before buying a cat. Use the Internet. Hang out at cat shows. Visit a lot of catteries.

As for me, I bought five cats from the same breeder. His cats were more or less bred under foot, but he was at work most of the day. The first cat I bought from him (Harvey) was very standoffish from the start, but eventually became quite friendly. All of the kittens I got from him turned out to have roundworms, apparently from Momcat's milk. His stud had coccidia, but since he didn't share the other cats' litter boxes, he didn't infect anyone else. Let's just say that my breeder wasn't really up on medical things. Nor did he have a clear idea about cat color genetics (which is, to be fair, an extremely complicated topic). Nevertheless, aside from the roundworm problem, and the fact that some of his kittens were not particularly affectionate at the start (after all, every cat has a distinct personality), he was not a backyard breeder. However, he and his mentor (all breeders have mentors) both made buyers sign contracts stating that the cat being bought could not be returned for any reason but a congenital disease. His thinking was that if one of his cats had ringworm or a URI at the time of sale, the buyer should have recognized that and not bought the cat (none of the kittens I saw ever had either condition, by the way). If ringworm or a URI developed later, in his view, it was no longer his responsibility. Yes, even I found this attitude a bit irresponsible, but I understand the reasons behind it. One of my cats developed a URI several months after I bought her, and I'm pretty sure she caught it at a cat show. I certainly couldn't blame him for that. I do blame him for not deworming his queen each time he bred her, though.

As a side note, one tricky issue is that of FIP--a devastating, invariably fatal disease that kittens are particularly vulnerable to. FIP results when feline coronavirus mutates. A significant majority of cats, especially those raised in a multicat environment, show antibodies against coronavirus when given a blood test. One might think that a breeder should have all the cattery's cats tested for coronavirus antibodies, but since the majority of cats have coronavirus, and it mutates into FIP only rarely, this is, to my knowledge, not a test that is regularly done on cattery cats.

Sorry to have gone on for so long. And I'm terribly sorry for all the people who have been ripped off by breeders. There are irresponsible breeders out there. There are also breeders like my own breeder, who are basically good breeders, but not perfect. In fact, I wonder if there is such a things as a perfect breeder.

As for breeders who abuse their animals--yes, they do exist, and they are the lowest of the low. You know, the type of puppy/kitten mill breeders who keep their cats in cages that are filled with feces and dead animals. Or the type of breeder who kills an animal who is sickly or otherwise cannot be sold. Or a breeder who makes a queen give birth too often or too many times. This is why the buyer has to do their homework--and even that is not a guarantee that a cat is going to be healthy. I was irritated at my own breeder when I discovered that he was selling cats with roundworms, but that's nothing compared with selling inbred cats or cats with ringworm (which is obvious to the naked eye). Unfortunately, sometimes you have to learn from your mistakes--I know I have. You ran into a lousy breeder. I feel sorry for you and your kitty, and hope that somehow things will work out.

Purrs!
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Eddie

Lord Edward +- Lady Charlotte =- BFFs
 
 
Purred: Tue Aug 17, '10 6:57pm PST 
Thank you for clearing that out, feline friend. way to go
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Tue Aug 17, '10 8:49pm PST 
People can also check the CFA disciplanary/suspension/probation list.

http://www.cfa.org/org/disciplinary-suspensions.pdf

People should also do the research, to see if that breed is prone to genetic defects. Maine Coons and Ragdolls are prone to HCM, as well as other breeds. Persians are prone to PKD. Buyers should ask, if the parents have been tested, and ask to see the test results. You should run, not walk, away from any breeder, that does not test, and yes, I have first hand knowledge of this and can write a book on it, and, name names.

Cat Fancy, as well as other cat magazine, will publish articles on what to look for in a cattery, when looking for kittens, I believe CFA prob has that info on there somewhere. A responsible breeder, will give you a contract, that will very clearly, spell out, what guarantees they give, regarding the kitten, and what they expect from you. Run, do not walk, away that any that will not give you a contract. You should also get a receipt for your deposit, and/or purchase price.

Stuff does happen, but a responsible breeder, will guarantee the health of the kitten, and do everything, in reason, to keep the buyer happy, as they have a reputation to protect.

Each situation is different, and it depends on what the contract says, but the norm is, if there is an issue with the kitten, again, depending on what it is, you can return the kitten, and get another kitten, from the same litter, or wait for the next litter, or get your money back, its the buyers choice. Or if it is simple, the breeder may just pay the vet bill, again, the buyers choice. If, one chooses to keep the kitten, then it is the breeders choice, as to weather they will give the buyer another kitten, or refund all or part of the purchase price, or pay the vet bill.

If, you are not buying the kitten for purpose of breeding, and can prove, that you show, and you know what your doing, and breeders are extremly strict about this, they will require you to spay/neuter the kitten, and will send you the papers, only after you have proof of this.

You don't have to want a show cat, to buy from a breeder. They have what is called "pet quality", which just means, they consider the kitten not to be show quality, weather it is the confirmation or the feel the kitten would not adjust to being show. You have the same rules, the same contract, and the same guarantees. And the purchase price, would be alot less. Breeders want to find excellent home for the pet quality kittens too, and are just as pickey, as they are, with the show kittens.

And, sometimes a kitten that is deemed pet quality, turns out to be a top show cat. One of my friends had an Exotic, that was deemed pet quality. For the heck of it, she brought him to a show with her other cats, and asked me to show him. I consistantly beat the top Exotic in the Region, and made every Final, he never looked back, he was now, the one to beat. Bumpurr was deemed pet quality, at 10 months old, he was in first place in his Region. Cowboy was show quality, he missed half the season, due to circumstances not in my control, and he still finished in the top 10. My friends kitten finished in first place, and she was deemed pet quality. And I have seen kittens, that came from Championship parents, that don't do anything or just don't take to the show circuit, ya just never know, mol.

Excellent insite too, from Harvey.

big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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Harvey

Has been COTD!
 
 
Purred: Wed Aug 18, '10 12:06pm PST 
Harvey was also sold as "pet quality," but ended up being a Regional Winner, and was the 16th best Maine Coon neuter internationally. Boy, did that cost a lot of money! Now I realize he wasn't pet quality after all--after seeing hundreds of Maine Coons at shows, I know his good points and his bad points. His worst point was a bad personality--or rather, a lack of enthusiasm for being shown. Well, he's retired now so he doesn't have to go to any shows. Right now, I'm showing two of Chibi's kittens, but just for fun. I think they can become Grand Premiers, but I'm not going to go for Regional Winner again unless I have an intact male.
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Wed Aug 18, '10 4:33pm PST 
I picked Bumpurr based on his super sweet personality, I did not pick him, because of his confirmation. I did not expect him, to go in and win, from the start, as one might, if they picked a kitten based on confirmation.
Even tho, his mommy came from Championship parents, and every kitty in her background, was a Champion.

The breeder said, he is prob not going to do much. Now if you want one that will go in and win, the black one, will do it. Nope, I wanted Bump, and actually, he picked me out. Just would not leave me alone, as if to say, here I am, pick me, pick me. I reserved him at 6 weeks, and took him home at 8 weeks. I heard the black one was sold to someone in another Region, she never told me who, I often wonder, how he did at shows, never did see him at the shows, and we go all over the East Coast. I wonder, if he just never took to the shows. Or maybe he was in another Region, that I never went to.

Cowboy was reserved before he was even born, told her I was looking for a red, with white paws and white chest. One day she called me, and said, I've got one, he is yours, and he is really going to be something. He was, he missed half the show season, and he still finished in the Top 10 last season.

I think I am most proud of the Exotic kitten, for a kitten, that the breeder said, would do nothing, don't even bother taking him out, to Best of Breed and Finaling, from the very first ring he was in. OHHHH, those people hated me! Nasty! Demanded to know where he came from, told them, he is not mine, and I referred every one of them, to the owner. I am proud that he started his show career with me, and those people, had to deal with me, mol. big grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grinbig grin
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GC Rdreams- Golden- Bamboo of Po

1126901
 
 
Purred: Sat Aug 21, '10 7:45pm PST 
I agree with most of what has been said except to ask a breeder to see all the cats and kittens is not going to happen most of the time. If they have very young kittens they will not be willing to expose them to potential disease. The other thing I disagree with is a cat doesn't lose points for not behaving at the shows. The judges may not use the cat in a final, but the cat is strictly judged according to the breed standard not personality. The best thing to do is take your time in searching for a new kitten/cat - talk to people, visit cat shows and get to know the breeders. I always welcome people talking to me and asking me about my cats. Use your head, not your heart in making your choice.
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Bumpurr

RESPECT The- Star!
 
 
Purred: Sun Aug 22, '10 6:22am PST 
How many nasty cats ya seen in the Finals? big grin

And I show HHP, and personality definately does count. big grin
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GC Rdreams- Golden- Bamboo of Po

1126901
 
 
Purred: Sun Aug 22, '10 3:38pm PST 
Several nasty ones - one even bit the judge and went on to be a regional winner. It happens. Personality DOES count in HHP since the judges don't have a breed standard to judge against.

Edited by author Sun Aug 22, '10 3:40pm PST

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